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well you know one of the reasons it's

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coming back potentially we assume is

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because of the name image and lightness

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and that might be the one thing in the

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offseason get everybody to agree on if

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it brings that game back

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okay right off the bat i gotta tell you

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this is gonna be a long way around the

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intro but that clip is from espn college

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game day

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and i feel like wokeness has taken away

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every sports entertainment thing i ever

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had

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yeah nba is completely unwatchable nfl

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close behind but i hold on to college

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football i hold on to college football

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even though i have to kind of blind my

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eye

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here's the point though

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name image and likeness is the big news

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if you haven't heard about this

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it's that now they're going to pay

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players so that's enough of an intro

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here are the actual guys the jocks

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talking about the situation and the

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payoff comes at the end when the espn

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guy who's uh you know never played is

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just kind of the mouthpiece there when

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when he butts in and then i'll come back

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i didn't get a dime did you i did not

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get it done i never thought it was uh

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practical or fair for colleges to make

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billions of dollars off the backs and

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sacrifices of college athletes yeah the

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college athletes have been the

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workhorses for this whole system like

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you're building a whole economic system

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off the backs of these workforces and we

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couldn't benefit i'm talking about they

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wanted to bleed every red penny out of

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every athlete they could every student

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athlete without giving them any anything

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back outside of you know room and board

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in education which a lot of people like

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to talk about but there's nothing in

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comparison to what they're getting from

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the revenue generating sports like

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football and basketball pales is a

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comparison the one thing i would say

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does so and you know i'm staunchly in

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favor of all of this i don't know that

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there was any malicious intent

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okay so a fair question might be what

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the hell does any of this have to do

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with my upcoming interview with the very

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excellent gary lachman and

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here is the connection here's what we

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keep bumping into and it is a clip from

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this interview i have coming up with

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gary here it is well the thing is isn't

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this what everyone's been saying is

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supposed to have happened the age of

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aquarius is supposed to be with us right

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when all the strange stuff that was on

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the fringe ufos and paranormal stuff and

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cult activity and

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the breakdown of the mental rational

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consciousness

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and this means all the kind of

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you know we talk about post-modernism

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everything that was set in place during

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the modern period you know when the

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rational mind had organized everything

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everything was nice and set in place and

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linear and progress was happening and

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all that

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that's all

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being taken apart it's eating itself up

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to me it's like a jumping off point that

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goes in two completely different

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directions is

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like i love what you said it's beyond

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post modernism it's post everything it's

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post

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rational thought but then you said

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if i got this right

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is being taken down

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and then you said or is crumbling kind

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of under its own weight and to me that

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is the that is the debate

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so the point i think is determining

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malicious intent

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and i guess i'm still kind of processing

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the interview last time with joe atwell

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because he's all about citizenry and

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what we need to do and all that and i

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hesitate to go there but the part that

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does ring true is we do have to [\h__\h]

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figure out the malicious intent

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i mean the malicious intent in nil and

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college football is just about as clear

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as it can be i mean they they just stole

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billions of dollars every year from

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these athletes many of them if you want

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to go there are kind of socially

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underserved if you will but however you

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want to slice it and dice it they just

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ripped them off over and over again year

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year when they challenged it legally in

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court which they did you know they

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pulled every trick in the book i mean

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they moved the jurisdiction got the

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judges you know just follow it uh you

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know claret maurice claret a few years

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ago i mean it's just

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i mean it's it's like so many other

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things that are unauthorized history of

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the united states but i mean this is

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just a clear example of yes they had

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malicious intent i mean what was what

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you want to call malicious but they're

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out to squeeze like dez said every penny

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they could so back to gary

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that's the really the only question here

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is you know jump this way jump that way

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are they trying to bring down the system

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or is the system crumbling

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that's the question and that's our job

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to figure out

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and act accordingly

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anyways that's my idea

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here's my interview gary lachman

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welcome to skeptico where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex takaris

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and today we welcome actually welcome

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back gary lachman to skeptico if you

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don't know gary he's a very very

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accomplished author i don't usually read

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bios but

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you know this will kind of catapult

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everybody into gary's world if you are

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unfamiliar with who he is gary lachman

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is the author of 21 books on topics

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ranging from the evolution of

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consciousness popular culture and the

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history of the occult he has written

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biographies of aleister crowley rudolph

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steiner young blavatsky swedenberg and

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colin wilson as well as histories of

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hermeticism and the western inner

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tradition

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so like i said a lot of crossover with

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the stuff that we talk about here and uh

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as i also kind of tip my hand a little

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bit to gary i'm anxious to

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pull him in a couple of different

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directions than i normally hear him talk

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about he's he's i think

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he's very uh adept at talking about a

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range of these topics so we'll have a

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good time gary thanks for joining me

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glad you're here

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my pleasure thank you very much for

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having me on again

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so you know um

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i was

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i i bump into you every now and then

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because you do wrote so you do write so

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many fantastic books and then i was

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i just kind of stumbled across this

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presentation you gave unconsciousness

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to the theosophical society in england

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and i i thought it was really really

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interesting and i came across

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it it kind of sent me back to an earlier

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book that you wrote the secret history

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of consciousness and i wanted to read

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a quote from this book

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and as i read it i want people to keep

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in mind that this is 20 years at this

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point right

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i'm just about you know

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just short out but i was writing it 20

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years ago so

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came out in 2003 so

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i think people get where i'm going when

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i read this quote

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one of my motives in writing this book

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is to argue that the current monopoly on

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consciousness by scientists and academic

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philosophers is unfounded

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and that a whole history of thought

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about consciousness and its possible

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evolution is left out of their

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quote-unquote official accounts

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there is what i call a secret history of

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consciousness and i guess

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i have to admit with some a little

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embarrassment

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i was stunned i mean that's

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man that is powerful but it's it's like

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double powerful to think you wrote that

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20 years ago i've been doing this show

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for the last 10 years and that's been

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the main theme of my show is that the

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monopoly of consciousness

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where were you at then

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in your headspace

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and

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this is so much part of this

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presentation that i saw you know where

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how has that shifted where have we where

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have we come since then

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well where i was then most of the time

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was in the british library

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back in the day and you know reading and

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rereading and doing the research for the

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book but i mean fundamentally that book

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uh that allowed me to

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thoughts about everything i've been

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reading for the last i don't know 25

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years or something something like that

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and and i just felt and i still feel

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it's the case today

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that 99.9

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99 percent of the time when you have

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something about consciousness it's

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either it's science

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it's quantum quantum something or other

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and it's you know i don't know science

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of mine philosophy of mine something

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like that and that's fine

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but it does seem to me to sort of um

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monopolize or even ghettoize it because

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i think i mean i mean in the sense i

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mean obviously philosophy has talked

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about um consciousness but not

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necessarily in the same way as like

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philosophy of mine john sorel

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um you know bergson

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people like that i mean they're kind of

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name check but

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they're they're what they sort of

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arrived at or you know their conclusions

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are not necessarily unless you're doing

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that kind of particular philosophy you

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know it's split those guys over there

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the continental philosophy but we're

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doing the hard stuff over here this is

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the real that's the nice nice soft you

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know it's fine but this is the you know

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real kind of stuff here

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and um

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i still feel like that's that that's

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today i mean i i find you can't there's

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two things i mean well there's there's

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the the three sort of size uh

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there's the uh science talks about um

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uh though the three essays science talks

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about consciousness a lot we still that

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that's what we want and it's the

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spiritual side of it

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which is

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often in opposition to science but it

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has a particular kind of way that it

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talks about it and then there's a

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psychedelic which is a

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sound but it's a you know ps and then

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that's the consciousness too but there's

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a whole other kind of area i would say

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the existential i mentioned historical

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and that whole area and

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mostly because i've been you know very

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much influenced by the work of colin

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wilson um a british writer who

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well almost 10 years ago now 2013 passed

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00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:18,480
away but he wrote a great deal about

280
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consciousness from

281
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a sort of phenomenological

282
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and then into a kind of i know what you

283
00:10:28,389 --> 00:10:25,839
would call

284
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a cult or mystical paranormal kind of

285
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way um

286
00:10:33,750 --> 00:10:31,279
and throughout the 70s and 80s and all

287
00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:33,760
of that but that's all kind of i don't

288
00:10:37,030 --> 00:10:34,720
know there's a certain way it just

289
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,040
seemed to me like that sort of got

290
00:10:42,470 --> 00:10:39,519
lost in the shuffle and that's the area

291
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,480
that i come out of and so i i'm i'm for

292
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,480
me i'm just trying to have this

293
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conversation broadened uh because you

294
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,959
can certainly find

295
00:10:52,550 --> 00:10:50,320
insights into consciousness and

296
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novelists and poets and you know people

297
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of that sort it doesn't have to be you

298
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:56,320
know doesn't have to be sort of

299
00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:59,040
completely uh dominated by kind of the

300
00:11:03,269 --> 00:11:01,680
quantum world i think

301
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,279
yeah and i guess that's what i really

302
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:06,160
hooked into in uh reading that quote

303
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:08,160
from the book is that

304
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,760
it's it's like interesting the first

305
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:12,000
line that you gave me when you answered

306
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:13,040
just like

307
00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:15,839
i was buried in the library you know

308
00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:16,880
which

309
00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:19,360
there's like two parts of that one is

310
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,920
and it kind of relates to you know like

311
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everyone winds up talking about your

312
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:25,519
background you know it's like you're

313
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:27,440
giving a presentation to the esophageal

314
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:29,120
society of england and then you're doing

315
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:31,600
another international presentation and

316
00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,320
you know the washington times you know

317
00:11:37,509 --> 00:11:36,079
you're you're like a

318
00:11:39,590 --> 00:11:37,519
i didn't want to say legitimate author

319
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:39,600
because that's like delegitimizing it

320
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:42,880
but yeah i finally

321
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:44,959
but that's the thing that's the thing so

322
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:47,279
you know no one at the theosophical

323
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:49,200
society even though it was virtual there

324
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:50,959
there weren't groupies in the background

325
00:11:56,230 --> 00:11:53,920
with old uh blondie uh uh posters coming

326
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:56,240
forward looking for autographs i mean

327
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,279
and

328
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,279
i mean theosophical groupies you really

329
00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:01,200
have to watch out for them

330
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:02,399
but let's see

331
00:12:07,110 --> 00:12:04,720
the thing the thing that i guess is is

332
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:07,120
noteworthy because you are uh you

333
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:08,880
connect this stuff to culture

334
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:10,160
and

335
00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:11,040
very

336
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:12,880
few people can make the kind of

337
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:15,519
transition that you make and fully make

338
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:16,880
it you know what i mean fully make it

339
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,760
and

340
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,839
what i think it reflects in your work is

341
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:21,279
something that i want to get into

342
00:12:24,150 --> 00:12:22,720
because i'm not always in sync with

343
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:24,160
everything you read about but there's a

344
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:26,480
certain tenaciousness there

345
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:28,560
certain tenaciousness that

346
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:29,680
[\h__\h] it

347
00:12:33,430 --> 00:12:31,839
i could do this i know i can do it so

348
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:33,440
i'm gonna go [\h__\h] do it

349
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:34,240
and

350
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,959
when you say i was in the library i was

351
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:39,279
in the library for 20 [\h__\h] years yeah

352
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,000
i was studying this [\h__\h] and i see a

353
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:45,360
monopoly on consciousness that doesn't

354
00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:48,000
make any sense because that's the leap

355
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:50,240
you know they had maintained this kind

356
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:50,959
of

357
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,680
really absurdity because the the notion

358
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:55,760
and you say this in the presentation

359
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:57,600
which i i think you'd

360
00:13:01,030 --> 00:12:59,200
do it very well and you've done it other

361
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,040
places is that

362
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:03,600
at some level at some philosophical

363
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:04,480
level

364
00:13:09,430 --> 00:13:06,399
it's just kind of like the emperor has

365
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:09,440
no clothes here it's like really

366
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:11,760
there's consciousness is an illusion

367
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:13,519
you're of a hold on you're really going

368
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,160
to try and put that out there i mean did

369
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:18,160
you respond to any of that

370
00:13:21,269 --> 00:13:19,519
well i mean of course and that was one

371
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:21,279
of the things when you read about people

372
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:22,079
like

373
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:25,680
what's that john searle daniel david um

374
00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:27,839
um nicholas humphrey

375
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:30,160
i mean it's all this sort of

376
00:13:34,389 --> 00:13:32,560
explaining or explaining away

377
00:13:36,389 --> 00:13:34,399
which has been going on you know

378
00:13:40,150 --> 00:13:36,399
forever it's nothing new i mean it's

379
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:40,160
it's it's in a way it's it's the sort of

380
00:13:45,829 --> 00:13:42,160
as we say it's kind of the fundamental

381
00:13:47,829 --> 00:13:45,839
drive of that scientific view which

382
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:47,839
in itself isn't necessarily bad because

383
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:49,760
it's trying to understand and has

384
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:53,990
paradigms you know

385
00:13:59,750 --> 00:13:57,279
to um use an overused word you know that

386
00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:59,760
it does that but in doing so it it has

387
00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:01,519
to sort of chop it's very procrusty and

388
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:04,240
it has to chop things down to size to

389
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,880
fit its method of inquiry and that's

390
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:08,240
where i feel like well there's all these

391
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,160
things and i was thinking

392
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:12,160
i i know in brain studies they have

393
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:14,480
qualia this is one of the problems okay

394
00:14:18,150 --> 00:14:16,079
because the neurons are doing this or

395
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:18,160
that you will not we're not saying oh

396
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:21,600
that's neuron number 2672

397
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,600
it's lighting up next to blood no it's

398
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,279
like oh that's green

399
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:27,519
or oh i like that smell

400
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:29,440
oh god that's i remember where was that

401
00:14:32,949 --> 00:14:31,279
that was at the seashore

402
00:14:34,710 --> 00:14:32,959
so these are

403
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:34,720
qualitative experiences i mean we have

404
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:37,360
the quantum we should have the column

405
00:14:41,910 --> 00:14:39,199
but that would that that would be giving

406
00:14:44,470 --> 00:14:41,920
way to this kind of quantitative way to

407
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:44,480
try to understand these experiences you

408
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:45,360
can't

409
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,639
because these are experiences of a

410
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,920
different nature

411
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:49,920
you know and this is the thing where i i

412
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,760
just feel like that gets kind of lost i

413
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:53,040
mean

414
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,639
i'm sure the quantum things are doing

415
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,639
whatever they're doing all the time

416
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,760
but

417
00:15:02,150 --> 00:14:59,920
whatever they're doing it doesn't equate

418
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,160
with the strange sort of experience of

419
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,600
actually being conscious and being

420
00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:04,880
self-conscious

421
00:15:10,629 --> 00:15:08,800
and and i mean even that for starters is

422
00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:10,639
it's completely kind of you know very

423
00:15:13,670 --> 00:15:12,160
weird but then we have all the other

424
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,680
stuff that comes in later on you know

425
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:15,199
the

426
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:17,040
extended consciousness and abnormal or

427
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:18,639
whatever you want to call a paranormal

428
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:20,399
kind of thing so there's all these sorts

429
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:22,000
of things that they're part of our

430
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,199
phenomenon

431
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:26,000
phenomenal experience their the world is

432
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:27,920
like that for many people

433
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,079
but in order for whatever we want to

434
00:15:34,470 --> 00:15:32,320
call science to

435
00:15:36,550 --> 00:15:34,480
graph that it has to chop it down to fit

436
00:15:38,829 --> 00:15:36,560
it in and it gets rid of all the stuff

437
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:38,839
that basically

438
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:42,320
makes living worth living you know and

439
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:44,000
that's where you step in and it's kind

440
00:15:46,949 --> 00:15:45,600
of like yes you're right that's nice all

441
00:15:48,629 --> 00:15:46,959
that qualitative stuff we know that

442
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:48,639
let's make human but it doesn't really

443
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,360
exist out in the objective world

444
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:53,519
cool okay and

445
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:55,199
i'm down with that as a possible

446
00:15:58,030 --> 00:15:56,560
explanation

447
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:58,040
have you ever thought about the

448
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:59,759
conspiratorial or the potential

449
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:01,920
conspiratorial aspect of it because i'll

450
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:04,320
tell you where where i started i started

451
00:16:09,269 --> 00:16:06,480
straight up just with the science you

452
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,279
know so i was like rupert sheldrick dean

453
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:11,360
rayden you know they're looking at psy

454
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:13,759
looking at the borders of consciousness

455
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:15,440
let's look there because that's going to

456
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:17,279
kind of get to this

457
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:19,279
question in kind of a

458
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,600
boom data standpoint

459
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,440
but the more i got into it and then

460
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,600
particularly when i got into interested

461
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:27,839
in near-death experience science and i

462
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:29,120
always have to add science in there

463
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:30,720
because you know there's hundreds of

464
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:33,120
peer-reviewed paper on

465
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:35,360
near-death experience in hospital and

466
00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:37,279
all of our studies

467
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,920
studies near-death studies right that's

468
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:41,600
the thing you just slap that on and then

469
00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:42,959
it's like you know

470
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,720
well but but really if you look at the

471
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,959
science it's like okay what were the

472
00:16:50,629 --> 00:16:48,399
competing theories you know it's the

473
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,639
last gasp of dying brain well we can get

474
00:16:53,509 --> 00:16:52,000
in there and we can measure that and we

475
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,519
can measure the

476
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:56,000
you know the release of

477
00:17:00,470 --> 00:16:58,399
endorphins chemicals we can release the

478
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:00,480
dmt release we can measure all that

479
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:03,600
stuff and they have and and so but i

480
00:17:07,110 --> 00:17:04,959
guess my point is where i got to the

481
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,120
conspiratorial part really what put me

482
00:17:11,909 --> 00:17:09,439
over the edge was uh i don't know if you

483
00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:11,919
remember this but probably 10 years ago

484
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:14,720
when the near-death experience thing

485
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:17,360
really hit and it hit with harvard

486
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:20,000
neurosurgeon evan alexander comes out

487
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:21,120
with a book

488
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:23,439
proof of heaven it's a phenomenal book

489
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:25,039
in terms of phenomenally successful new

490
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:26,880
york times bestseller everyone's talking

491
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,839
about it

492
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:29,120
and man

493
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,000
i mean the cultural takedown on this guy

494
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,799
was unlike anything i've ever seen

495
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:36,000
i mean they were coming out of the

496
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,520
woodwork and

497
00:17:41,990 --> 00:17:40,160
what was the the sam harris is always my

498
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:42,000
favorite one sam harris comes out and

499
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,919
says this book is alarmingly

500
00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:45,760
unscientific

501
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:46,960
and this guy doesn't know what he's

502
00:17:49,909 --> 00:17:48,559
talking about

503
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:49,919
and i remember talking to people and

504
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,679
they go but i thought you said he was a

505
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:54,160
harvard neurosurgeon

506
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,000
yeah he's a neurosurgeon so what

507
00:18:01,750 --> 00:17:59,200
business is this crackpot sam harris who

508
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:01,760
you know doesn't even practice the

509
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:03,600
neuroscience

510
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:05,360
but but that's the way it was and

511
00:18:11,350 --> 00:18:08,480
esquire magazine major takedown and it

512
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:11,360
so the big the question there is

513
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:13,440
i've come to believe that there's a

514
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:15,200
certain i'm not saying it's the whole

515
00:18:19,110 --> 00:18:16,960
thing there's certain conspiratorial

516
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:19,120
aspects social engineering aspect to it

517
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,760
is that you know you thinking you're

518
00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:23,280
meaningless that you're a biological

519
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:26,160
robot that consciousness is an illusion

520
00:18:30,070 --> 00:18:27,919
is kind of good for business in some

521
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:30,080
ways you know what i mean uh

522
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,160
you're not having an expanded

523
00:18:36,789 --> 00:18:34,400
sense of your

524
00:18:38,549 --> 00:18:36,799
fit in the universe beyond that that

525
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:38,559
might be that might be useful for

526
00:18:45,430 --> 00:18:43,350
well i mean i mean i i mean i i just

527
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:45,440
think there's people of that sensibility

528
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,799
and there's some people that are

529
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,480
extremists or

530
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:50,480
fundamentalists i get i guess the

531
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,400
dawkins and you know what to tell you

532
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:54,400
the truth i i have to plead ignorant to

533
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,960
have to be one of the few people on

534
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:58,640
the social media world too i know the

535
00:19:03,110 --> 00:19:00,880
name sam harris but i've never read or

536
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,120
listened or heard anything i i i don't i

537
00:19:07,270 --> 00:19:05,280
don't paint i uh who's all these other

538
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:07,280
guys joshua people i'm nothing yes i

539
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:08,640
don't know them they don't know me i'm

540
00:19:13,029 --> 00:19:11,039
sure i'm sure they don't know me uh but

541
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,039
i i just don't i haven't i'm too busy

542
00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:14,960
doing my own thing so i don't know you

543
00:19:18,390 --> 00:19:17,200
know what they're about but i do know

544
00:19:21,029 --> 00:19:18,400
that yeah i mean you know i mean

545
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:21,039
wikipedia seems to be slanted towards

546
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:24,720
that realm it tends to call anything

547
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:25,600
you know

548
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:31,039
science or whatever i mean i i noticed

549
00:19:33,909 --> 00:19:32,799
that and that kind of thing and i mean

550
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,919
it just seemed

551
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:35,760
it's a hard road to hoe you know it's

552
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,480
always been like that um

553
00:19:43,750 --> 00:19:41,280
uh i mean you mentioned you know

554
00:19:46,070 --> 00:19:43,760
dean ray and i mean i i

555
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:46,080
i don't know a year or two ago i did a

556
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:48,880
seminar with uh dean rayden and alex

557
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:51,280
alex gray at the omega studios in

558
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,360
upstate new york and

559
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,360
uh yeah i mean you know it's there the

560
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:57,360
evidence is there the evidence has been

561
00:20:00,390 --> 00:19:58,559
there

562
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:00,400
for a long time i mean in a way it's

563
00:20:05,430 --> 00:20:02,559
just more of it it's finer it's more

564
00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:05,440
finely tuned it's right there it can't

565
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:07,360
really ignore it and if you are ignoring

566
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:08,799
you you're purposely

567
00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:10,000
you know you're not looking through the

568
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,919
telescope uh

569
00:20:15,510 --> 00:20:14,080
kind of thing because um i mean not in

570
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,520
any way to diminish the work that's

571
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:17,280
going on now because the reason i'm

572
00:20:21,830 --> 00:20:19,600
saying this is i did

573
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:21,840
last year during the coven sort of

574
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:23,760
shutdown here the first one

575
00:20:28,549 --> 00:20:25,919
which seems such a long time ago now i

576
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:28,559
wrote a short book about precognitive

577
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:30,480
dreams that i've been recording for the

578
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:32,159
last 40 years

579
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:33,600
you know which your personal

580
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:35,840
pre-cognitive dreams

581
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:38,400
going back to about 1980 starting

582
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,400
and then um also bringing in other

583
00:20:45,190 --> 00:20:43,200
people like don jw

584
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:45,200
jb priestly and

585
00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:46,799
tc lethbridge

586
00:20:51,270 --> 00:20:48,720
young synchronicity and you know lots of

587
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:51,280
other you know things coming in there so

588
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,280
it's um yeah it's called dreaming ahead

589
00:20:57,990 --> 00:20:56,240
of time it would have been out this this

590
00:21:00,470 --> 00:20:58,000
summer but um

591
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:00,480
corona mania hit and it was put back so

592
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:02,000
it's supposed to be coming out next year

593
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:03,679
but the reason i mention that is i talk

594
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:05,760
about talking with dean rayden about

595
00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:07,440
about you know that kind of thing and

596
00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:09,120
there's there's certainly enough

597
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:10,400
evidence

598
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,240
there to show that

599
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:14,400
whatever may be behind it

600
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:16,880
whether it's retro causality

601
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,440
as you know eric bargo in his book time

602
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,760
loops it's this remarkable book

603
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,000
uh he talks about this

604
00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:25,840
or whatever it might be behind it it's

605
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:27,120
something that you know it's on the

606
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:28,799
record but yeah

607
00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:30,400
people who don't want to know this

608
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,320
turned a blind eye to it and they're

609
00:21:36,630 --> 00:21:34,480
still in a position where they can

610
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:36,640
see the woo-woo effect is still around

611
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,760
you know

612
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:39,679
you used to not be able to talk about

613
00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:42,080
sex

614
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,880
yeah

615
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,400
now we can talk about so you don't have

616
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,400
the weirdest sex it doesn't matter

617
00:21:49,830 --> 00:21:47,919
anymore it's not salacious it's not

618
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:49,840
titillating it's just it's just yeah

619
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:51,679
this is how it is and it's aren't we

620
00:21:55,029 --> 00:21:53,600
liberating we can talk about it but we

621
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:55,039
we can't talk about this sort of thing

622
00:22:00,549 --> 00:21:58,320
without the x-files music coming on

623
00:22:01,909 --> 00:22:00,559
an effect happening which in one sense

624
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:01,919
we want to keep because it is strange

625
00:22:05,990 --> 00:22:04,000
and mysterious and weird but it's the

626
00:22:08,149 --> 00:22:06,000
sort of thing that allows

627
00:22:10,870 --> 00:22:08,159
the you know the still

628
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,880
entrenched authorities to say ah you

629
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:12,880
know what did i what did i tell you it's

630
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:14,559
this strange kind of you know weird

631
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,360
stuff

632
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:17,280
so there's certainly those two ways of

633
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:18,720
looking at it and fair enough i think

634
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:20,240
the precognitive stuff is really

635
00:22:23,909 --> 00:22:22,080
interesting i have a

636
00:22:28,549 --> 00:22:23,919
a friend and a guy who's been on the

637
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,559
show dr andy paquette who got a phd at

638
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:31,200
london college london there but is just

639
00:22:34,870 --> 00:22:32,559
like yeah i think he's from new jersey

640
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:34,880
originally really that was a strange

641
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:39,909
but andy has the unique thing about andy

642
00:22:43,669 --> 00:22:41,919
is he's very uh

643
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,679
meticulous about recording his

644
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,159
precognitive genius and has recorded and

645
00:22:51,110 --> 00:22:48,480
databased 8 000 of them at this point

646
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,120
wow and has the ability to through his

647
00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,760
database kind of go in and compare and

648
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:55,600
he's done follow-ups i don't know how

649
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,280
he's had the time and

650
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,080
persistence to do it but

651
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:01,919
all that stuff you know what i call

652
00:23:04,870 --> 00:23:03,840
extended consciousness you know because

653
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:04,880
to

654
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,880
but i like how you say the kind of

655
00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,440
ghettoization of consciousness i i think

656
00:23:18,149 --> 00:23:15,600
that's that's happened you know but now

657
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:18,159
we're beyond that and i think that the

658
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,559
the real movement is to keep pushing

659
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,559
pushing beyond that and say okay that

660
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:24,720
discussion is really a silly discussion

661
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:26,559
uh consciousness is an illusion i mean

662
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,440
it just

663
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:29,280
i think it was a conspiratorial

664
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:31,520
absurdity at the beginning but at the

665
00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:33,679
very least can we can we acknowledge

666
00:23:38,630 --> 00:23:36,400
that the action is where we're at in

667
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:38,640
terms of you know what is precognition

668
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:39,600
what is

669
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:41,840
eric vargo i don't exactly

670
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,279
i don't think that supports that but

671
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:45,520
near-death experience i think e.t you

672
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,320
know is is incredibly important and they

673
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,880
just came out with in the united states

674
00:23:55,269 --> 00:23:52,960
you know the

675
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:55,279
preliminary assessment of uh you know

676
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:58,400
which is such a phony title but of uh

677
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:01,440
the uap ufo

678
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,760
this shift is one of the greatest shifts

679
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:05,120
in terms of the content from the

680
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:07,120
consciousness standpoint greatest shifts

681
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,080
in our lifetime of now this disclosure

682
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,480
that yeah there is this et's in the

683
00:24:17,510 --> 00:24:15,200
extended consciousness realm which if

684
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:17,520
anyone wants to just ignore everything

685
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:19,440
else and and kind of not read that

686
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,520
headline into it you're kind of missing

687
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:23,440
the point i mean so that's what they're

688
00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:24,320
saying

689
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:25,360
and then

690
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:27,279
it sends us an entirely different

691
00:24:30,710 --> 00:24:29,200
direction as well i mean what what does

692
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:30,720
that mean what is our place in the

693
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:34,480
universe again is redefined so i

694
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:36,000
contrast that with

695
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,080
you know this talk of

696
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:40,480
traditional science and you know

697
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:43,120
still one grave one funeral at a time

698
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,720
it's like no we are way past that

699
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,080
well the thing is isn't this what

700
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,919
everyone's been saying is supposed to

701
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,600
have happened the age of aquarius is

702
00:24:55,750 --> 00:24:53,200
supposed to be with us right more or

703
00:24:56,549 --> 00:24:55,760
less we're kind of not i don't know it's

704
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:56,559
all

705
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:00,640
into it you know

706
00:25:05,590 --> 00:25:03,760
when the meter ticks into it but um

707
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:05,600
that's all supposed to be happening

708
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:08,799
and we certainly live in a time it seems

709
00:25:13,669 --> 00:25:11,840
when all the strange stuff that was on

710
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:13,679
the fringe

711
00:25:20,310 --> 00:25:16,960
the marginalized weird stuff

712
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:20,320
ufos and paranormal stuff and cult

713
00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:21,919
activity and

714
00:25:26,789 --> 00:25:24,720
you know weird politics and all that

715
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:26,799
have become center stage or at least

716
00:25:32,070 --> 00:25:29,840
they were during you know the

717
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:32,080
administration of the previous um

718
00:25:36,310 --> 00:25:33,440
president

719
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:36,320
uh do you think it's any less so now

720
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:38,960
no i was going to say that's the p p

721
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:39,679
o

722
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:40,480
t

723
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:42,010
u s

724
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:43,120
[Music]

725
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:45,440
uh but uh well i mean oh well i mean i'm

726
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,880
i just mean the sense that that's

727
00:25:50,950 --> 00:25:48,400
something we associate

728
00:25:52,630 --> 00:25:50,960
i i guess which i i'm you know not

729
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:52,640
necessarily go down this road i mean the

730
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:54,480
idea was like

731
00:25:59,750 --> 00:25:57,600
okay wow that's over now now we're back

732
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:59,760
and now you know things are crumbling

733
00:26:03,750 --> 00:26:01,200
around us and

734
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:03,760
uh it's all very strange so no i don't i

735
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:05,840
i personally don't think it's over i

736
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:08,840
mean nothing's ever over just i mean

737
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,600
uh it's like you know what part of it

738
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:13,200
what part of the story were you involved

739
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,400
in and then you know another story

740
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,360
starts bubbling up but um i mean i i

741
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,440
somebody i mentioned in the book i did

742
00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:21,440
about trump dark star rising

743
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:24,159
magic and power in the age of trump um

744
00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:27,440
just briefly in there um there's this

745
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:29,600
german swiss philosopher named gene

746
00:26:32,149 --> 00:26:31,279
gepser

747
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:32,159
um

748
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:34,880
who can't go into detail about his

749
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:36,960
his ideas about consciousness again like

750
00:26:41,669 --> 00:26:39,679
you know only people who know his work

751
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,679
and this is mostly in cultural studies

752
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,360
or sociology

753
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:44,960
um

754
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:49,360
but he has something called the ever

755
00:26:53,830 --> 00:26:50,559
what he calls these structures of

756
00:26:55,990 --> 00:26:53,840
consciousness long story short he's he's

757
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:56,000
he said he died in the early 70s but he

758
00:27:00,390 --> 00:26:57,840
said what we're going through

759
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:00,400
um 20th century so the beginning of and

760
00:27:05,430 --> 00:27:03,120
we we're certainly you know

761
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:05,440
going through an intensified period of

762
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,039
is what he called the breakdown of the

763
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,200
mental rational consciousness

764
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:11,520
and this means all all the kind of the

765
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:14,640
you know we talk about post-modernism

766
00:27:19,029 --> 00:27:16,240
everything that was set in place during

767
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:19,039
the modern period you know when the

768
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,279
rational mind had organized everything

769
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:23,039
everything was nice and set in place and

770
00:27:25,669 --> 00:27:24,720
linear and progress was happening and

771
00:27:27,029 --> 00:27:25,679
all that

772
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,039
that's all

773
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,520
being taken apart it's eating itself up

774
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:31,840
deconstructionism post-modernism does it

775
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,919
right quantum did it with the physical

776
00:27:38,070 --> 00:27:35,760
newtonian world already

777
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:38,080
you know in the beginning of the century

778
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,600
can i hone in on one little thing you

779
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,279
said there because to me it's like a

780
00:27:45,269 --> 00:27:42,640
jumping off point that goes in two

781
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:45,279
completely different directions is

782
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:47,279
like i love what you said

783
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:50,399
that it's beyond post modernism it's

784
00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:52,720
post everything it's post

785
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:55,039
rational thought but then you said

786
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,640
if i got this right

787
00:28:00,870 --> 00:27:58,799
is being taken down

788
00:28:03,269 --> 00:28:00,880
and then you said or is crumbling kind

789
00:28:05,669 --> 00:28:03,279
of under its own weight and to me that

790
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:05,679
is the that is the debate that that

791
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,559
my tribe is having is is that being

792
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:11,120
taken down is that an intentional effort

793
00:28:15,510 --> 00:28:13,039
to take that down or is it somehow

794
00:28:17,590 --> 00:28:15,520
organically crumbling because

795
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:17,600
it needed to crumble and make whatever i

796
00:28:20,389 --> 00:28:18,720
mean

797
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:20,399
with that there you go that's a i guess

798
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:22,640
that's a philosophical critical sort of

799
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:24,399
question because in one sense it is

800
00:28:27,750 --> 00:28:25,919
being taken down but you don't need a

801
00:28:29,990 --> 00:28:27,760
conspiracy theory for that it's been

802
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:30,000
taken down by itself that's what i said

803
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,600
movements like deconstructionism and

804
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:33,520
post-modernism they're all about the end

805
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:35,600
of the big narratives the world just by

806
00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:38,159
definition post-modernism it's the in

807
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,640
one way is it's the most vacuous

808
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,640
term it's like whatever came after

809
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,960
modernism

810
00:28:49,029 --> 00:28:46,799
it's like that's why it's like what i'm

811
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:49,039
i'm i i used to say i'm i'm interested

812
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:51,039
in pre-next thingism

813
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:52,000
you know

814
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:55,120
thing is

815
00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:57,440
you know and so this stuff is so i'm

816
00:29:01,510 --> 00:28:59,039
after whatever that was and it's like

817
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:01,520
that's fine that gives you a linear

818
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:04,240
temporal kind of placement but

819
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,080
you're what's your content

820
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,919
and both of those movements are

821
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,399
contentless postmodernism contentless it

822
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:12,159
takes bits and pieces of other things

823
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:14,240
and plays around with them velcros them

824
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:15,919
together whether it's architecture or

825
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,200
you know whatever

826
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:19,760
whatever form deconstructionism by

827
00:29:24,149 --> 00:29:21,919
definition it doesn't make anything it

828
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:24,159
takes things apart well in that case you

829
00:29:27,990 --> 00:29:25,679
have to have something that's made

830
00:29:29,750 --> 00:29:28,000
already that you can take apart

831
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,760
and what what did they take apart they

832
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,840
took apart the western

833
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:33,440
tradition that's what they've been doing

834
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:34,159
and

835
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:36,320
somebody like trump who knows nothing

836
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:37,760
about this just

837
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:40,559
he just got the whiff oh reality is what

838
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:42,720
we say it is

839
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:45,279
and this that's in that book what i'm

840
00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:46,960
saying in that book is that

841
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:48,000
there's a

842
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:49,360
few different

843
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:52,320
trajectories of attacking the notion of

844
00:29:56,470 --> 00:29:54,159
a stable objective reality with a

845
00:29:57,909 --> 00:29:56,480
capital r or a stable objective truth of

846
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:57,919
the capital t

847
00:30:02,389 --> 00:29:59,840
that is available

848
00:30:04,149 --> 00:30:02,399
for objective you know inquiry through

849
00:30:06,870 --> 00:30:04,159
the rational mind

850
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,880
that is so 20th century man that's like

851
00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:09,919
gone and and he ran with it he doesn't

852
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:11,520
know the first thing about postmodernism

853
00:30:13,830 --> 00:30:12,720
all this kind of stuff but he knew oh

854
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,840
reality is what you make of it and

855
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,760
that's the positive thinking side you

856
00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:17,760
know norm vincent deal and all that but

857
00:30:22,310 --> 00:30:19,600
that all ties in with occult thought

858
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,320
with new thought and met excuse me

859
00:30:25,830 --> 00:30:24,320
magical thinking and so

860
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:25,840
and then the other side of it is the

861
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:27,760
reality tv

862
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,159
where you know he popped out of

863
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,399
television i mean again that's

864
00:30:35,750 --> 00:30:33,919
sympathetic magic whatever you want to

865
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,760
call it and then these guys

866
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:37,200
you know the whole peppy the frog kind

867
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,159
of thing which is supposed to have

868
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:40,480
helped him get elected

869
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,840
you know what happened to him kind of

870
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:45,600
one wants to say naturally or let us

871
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:46,720
just say kind of

872
00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:49,039
on its own where he popped out of

873
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:50,640
television after being the guy in the

874
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:52,240
apprentice where he already fired that

875
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:54,240
he actually became the big guy who hired

876
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:55,520
him fired

877
00:30:58,710 --> 00:30:56,559
that

878
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,720
happened by itself but the reason he got

879
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:00,880
to be in that was these guys helped him

880
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,000
you know using the internet i mean this

881
00:31:07,830 --> 00:31:06,080
again

882
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,840
this is what they say happen and but

883
00:31:12,070 --> 00:31:10,240
it's it's

884
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:12,080
we live in this strange time with that

885
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:13,760
reality has just been kind of you know

886
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:14,960
the seams

887
00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:16,080
it's something

888
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,840
that the the

889
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,360
which is what you do you find you find

890
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:21,440
the loose thread and you pull it

891
00:31:25,750 --> 00:31:23,679
and in many ways you don't need any kind

892
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,760
of conspiracy theory about that that

893
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,760
this is what makes our time strange i'm

894
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,600
just trying to characterize why our

895
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:31,039
particular time is strange i'm not

896
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:32,880
saying there aren't conspiracies i don't

897
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:34,960
know they may be i i stay away from them

898
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:36,880
because i say

899
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,640
trap doors you open a trap door and you

900
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:40,159
keep opening trap doors but they're all

901
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:42,480
trap doors i mean it's the thread it's

902
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,789
in one sense we don't need it because

903
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:48,799
reality itself has become like that

904
00:31:53,909 --> 00:31:51,120
completely i mean that's the starting

905
00:31:55,909 --> 00:31:53,919
maybe there's a conspiracy behind making

906
00:31:58,950 --> 00:31:55,919
it so maybe that's the case maybe this

907
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,960
is behind making reality i mean one of

908
00:32:02,310 --> 00:32:00,480
the people i talk about in dark star

909
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,320
rising is russian

910
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:04,159
alexander dude and he was a professional

911
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:06,399
conspiracy theorist for a while he was

912
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:08,080
inventing conspiracy theories for the

913
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,840
russian press and all that this was part

914
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:10,799
of the whole

915
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,360
you know the the

916
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,600
gigantic kind of well you could say

917
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,080
conspiracy theory that putin had

918
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:20,799
um installed over the russian people you

919
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:22,880
know but that in a sense it's sort of

920
00:32:26,389 --> 00:32:24,640
like an invented reality you invent

921
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:26,399
reality you know

922
00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:27,200
so

923
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:28,720
here's my thing i like

924
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:30,480
kind of we could take this discussion in

925
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:32,159
two ways or it's always going to kind of

926
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:34,080
loop back and the snake is going to eat

927
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:35,440
its tail and all that kind of stuff

928
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:38,880
because fundamentally your understanding

929
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,519
and you build this up with the data and

930
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,600
the evidence in the philosophical data

931
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:45,919
if you can call it that is that their

932
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:48,159
you know our reality is

933
00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:49,600
at the very least we can say it's a

934
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,240
lesser reality it's a lesser reality we

935
00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:53,679
are looking through the long end of the

936
00:32:57,669 --> 00:32:55,760
telescope and there's other people and

937
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,679
this is what the extended consciousness

938
00:33:00,870 --> 00:32:59,519
uh literature comes back right so people

939
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:00,880
have a near-death experience they come

940
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:03,120
back and go oh i had a controlled

941
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:04,960
download i knew everything and now i'm

942
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,640
back at this body and i don't you know

943
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:08,559
what i mean or in your pre-cognitive

944
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:10,399
dreams there's this expanded beyond

945
00:33:15,669 --> 00:33:14,000
space time i know more than i know now

946
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:15,679
and yet we always want to shift gears

947
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,760
and downshift and go no wait a minute

948
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:19,919
i'm back here i'm back in charge here

949
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:22,320
let me tell you how it all works and so

950
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:24,320
we we can always shift to that mode and

951
00:33:28,950 --> 00:33:27,200
say you know we don't know [\h__\h] which is

952
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:28,960
always going to be true but here's the

953
00:33:33,430 --> 00:33:31,039
part that i guess is is kind of tough

954
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,440
though so and then let me make one other

955
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:34,880
point about

956
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:37,120
dark star rising

957
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:38,480
brilliant insight

958
00:33:45,750 --> 00:33:42,960
for you to connect

959
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,760
the trump you know new thought movement

960
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:47,840
which again just kind of totally flies

961
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,679
under the radar and everyone goes oh

962
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:52,320
yeah that's great that's a yeah i have a

963
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,600
picture of a

964
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:56,399
of a range rover on my refrigerator

965
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:58,480
because that's what i want you know it's

966
00:34:02,310 --> 00:34:00,559
like okay but explore that

967
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:02,320
philosophically what that means in terms

968
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,600
of how you

969
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,679
see the world how you see reality on the

970
00:34:09,030 --> 00:34:07,200
rest of this but when you get to the

971
00:34:11,190 --> 00:34:09,040
conspiracy stuff it's like if we are

972
00:34:14,149 --> 00:34:11,200
gonna play that game it's like the dark

973
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:14,159
star rising where are we with uh hillary

974
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:16,560
and mariana in spirit cooking which

975
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:18,800
connects directly to aleister crowley i

976
00:34:22,389 --> 00:34:21,359
mean don't we at least have to go [\h__\h]

977
00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:22,399
man because

978
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:24,159
first of all you want to talk about

979
00:34:27,030 --> 00:34:25,599
conspiracy

980
00:34:29,109 --> 00:34:27,040
again this is one that flies under the

981
00:34:32,149 --> 00:34:29,119
radar is this a conspiracy

982
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:32,159
[\h__\h] yes it's a conspiracy 400 you know

983
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:35,280
thousands of emails the most incendiary

984
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:37,599
emails are released four days before the

985
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,560
election and they sink hillary's boat i

986
00:34:44,470 --> 00:34:42,720
mean that's not like oh that just that

987
00:34:46,869 --> 00:34:44,480
just happened by chance somebody

988
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:46,879
released politics

989
00:34:50,310 --> 00:34:48,159
it's politics but it's also

990
00:34:51,829 --> 00:34:50,320
conspiratorial and it's also right into

991
00:34:53,589 --> 00:34:51,839
this world i mean you wrote a biography

992
00:34:55,829 --> 00:34:53,599
on aleister crowley and i know your

993
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:55,839
biographies are kind of real biographies

994
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:57,839
but the connection to

995
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:58,800
you know

996
00:35:03,270 --> 00:35:00,880
mariana and hillary and spirit cooking i

997
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:03,280
have to say i mean people have uh

998
00:35:07,109 --> 00:35:05,520
criticized me or at least brought to my

999
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:07,119
attention that i have nothing to say

1000
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:08,960
about which i have to say i didn't pay

1001
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,520
any attention to that not because i'm a

1002
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:13,760
hillary fan at all at all no i may not

1003
00:35:18,870 --> 00:35:17,920
you know um so i have to say i i don't i

1004
00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:18,880
don't know

1005
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:22,079
about that i mean i know what it is

1006
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:23,760
the pizzagate sort of thing but i have

1007
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:26,320
to say i'm one of these people because i

1008
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,880
there's a kind of necessary ignorance in

1009
00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:31,040
order to sort of do my work i have to

1010
00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:33,200
sort of you know fill things out so i

1011
00:35:37,109 --> 00:35:34,800
have again i'm i'm just you know

1012
00:35:39,589 --> 00:35:37,119
pleading that i don't know enough about

1013
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,599
that to have anything intelligent to say

1014
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:41,680
fair enough and i guess hold on because

1015
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:42,880
i want to say something that this

1016
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:45,280
relates back to the first part is that

1017
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,800
i could be totally off on this but

1018
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,880
that's the kind of tenaciousness that i

1019
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:49,760
think

1020
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,680
it takes to kind of make the transition

1021
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,000
that you did in your life to be kind of

1022
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:56,000
like there and say oh no i can shut that

1023
00:35:59,910 --> 00:35:57,359
off and you want to pull me into that

1024
00:36:01,589 --> 00:35:59,920
world i refuse i'm staying here and this

1025
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,599
is my lane and i'm going to run that

1026
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,520
lane but i do want to pull you in there

1027
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:04,880
a little bit i do want to pull you in

1028
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:07,440
there no no i mean i'm i'm glad you do

1029
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:09,280
but that's why i'm saying i'm doing it

1030
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,520
public here on live and admitting my

1031
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,440
ignorance which many people wouldn't do

1032
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:15,440
they would they would perhaps try to say

1033
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:17,359
something that sounded like they knew

1034
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,800
they were talking about which i you

1035
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,320
could say i do that most of the time

1036
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:23,280
anyway but that's true but

1037
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:25,440
at least on this occasion i'm i'm being

1038
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:28,400
socratic and and and with that admitting

1039
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:30,320
by ignorance so i mean that's the thing

1040
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,839
a lot of people that i guess were

1041
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,760
pro-trump and sort of like oh man you're

1042
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,520
just doing this occult trump stuff but

1043
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:37,200
you're not doing anything about that

1044
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:39,920
kind of there and i just have to say i

1045
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:41,520
mean the reason i wrote the book dark

1046
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:44,640
star is that my my my editor at uh

1047
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:47,440
the torture penguin asked me to do it

1048
00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:50,560
um and it was like okay go for it so i i

1049
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:51,920
followed that trail i mean i know

1050
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,960
there's a broader kind of studies about

1051
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:56,240
that side too

1052
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:57,040
um

1053
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:58,480
i guess you could say

1054
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:01,280
you know a co-politics on the left or i

1055
00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:02,720
don't know are they the left is hillary

1056
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:05,520
the left she's i guess

1057
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:08,400
yeah i don't think this is a reality i i

1058
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,880
did do a book earlier called politics in

1059
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:12,000
your code

1060
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:13,599
which

1061
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:16,079
the main argument of it

1062
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:17,599
is

1063
00:37:22,470 --> 00:37:21,520
progressive occult politics

1064
00:37:24,390 --> 00:37:22,480
um

1065
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:24,400
you know people like madame levansky or

1066
00:37:28,310 --> 00:37:26,560
annie bessante was the head of the

1067
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,320
theosophical society they were both very

1068
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,640
much involved in indian independence

1069
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:32,160
victoria woodhall who was the first

1070
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,280
woman to run for president in 1872 she

1071
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,280
was a mesmerist and a healer and a

1072
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,760
psychic she also translated the

1073
00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,000
communist manifesto

1074
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,240
and she had a um

1075
00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:46,560
a wall street brokerage firm she's one

1076
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,560
of these remarkable women you know in

1077
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:50,800
the 19th century uh and she was a free

1078
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,359
love advocate so okay so i'm just saying

1079
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:55,359
there is this kind of history of a kind

1080
00:37:57,829 --> 00:37:56,079
of

1081
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:57,839
progressive but let us say called

1082
00:38:01,829 --> 00:37:59,040
politics

1083
00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:01,839
and like one of the most

1084
00:38:05,750 --> 00:38:04,000
one thing i was going to say just just

1085
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:05,760
just because i'm giving a talk about

1086
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:08,560
this actually in denmark um next month

1087
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:10,000
so this is kind of on my mind i just

1088
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:11,119
wanted to say

1089
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:12,960
you know the recent um

1090
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:15,760
explosion or eruption of the id uh at

1091
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:18,480
the capitol you know

1092
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:20,800
when the the barbarians entered and all

1093
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:21,760
that

1094
00:38:27,430 --> 00:38:26,079
the kind of burst of this kind of

1095
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:27,440
whatever you want to call it the the

1096
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:29,920
occult spell happening at that time for

1097
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:33,839
trump that was retreated whatever but um

1098
00:38:38,069 --> 00:38:36,240
that reminded me more than anything else

1099
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:38,079
of um

1100
00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:39,200
the

1101
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:43,839
attempt in 1967 to to exercise

1102
00:38:48,390 --> 00:38:46,480
and levitate the pentagon so but that

1103
00:38:49,349 --> 00:38:48,400
was from a leftist that was an anti-war

1104
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,359
march

1105
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,680
so i i'm not equating it but it was a

1106
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:53,119
similar sort of

1107
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:54,000
you know

1108
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,599
irrational

1109
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:58,000
kind of attempt that occult politics in

1110
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,079
a way i'm just saying that to say that

1111
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,640
yes this stuff happens on that side of

1112
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,640
the political spectrum as well

1113
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:06,560
interesting great great stuff and i like

1114
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:08,160
how you're holding the line it's

1115
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:10,400
important it keeps bringing us back to

1116
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,079
realizing where the line is when you

1117
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,960
keep holding it uh you know i'm not the

1118
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:16,640
political i don't i don't believe that i

1119
00:39:20,550 --> 00:39:18,400
think trump is a brand

1120
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,560
uh just like i think biden is a brand i

1121
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,560
don't think those are real

1122
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:24,720
i don't believe in anything what we

1123
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,480
would call traditionally political it

1124
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:28,880
just seems like such a farce but

1125
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:31,359
i do want to make sure we get to

1126
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,000
the underlying questions here that i

1127
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,320
don't always see you kind of square off

1128
00:39:40,470 --> 00:39:38,480
on directly like a couple years ago i

1129
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:40,480
wrote a book why evil matters and the

1130
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:42,880
premise of the book was that

1131
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:44,640
science it's right up your alley but

1132
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,560
it's like science

1133
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,920
denies evil in one way and then religion

1134
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:51,119
you know

1135
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:54,400
then

1136
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,880
it might be our best lens to really kind

1137
00:40:00,790 --> 00:39:59,280
of get a better understanding of what

1138
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,800
we're talking about when we talk about

1139
00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:02,560
consciousness because when we move to

1140
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,720
talk about evil and somebody well that's

1141
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:06,319
just a social construct or this and then

1142
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:07,839
you start really nailing it down because

1143
00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:09,920
there's plenty of evil in the world and

1144
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,200
that was the whole purpose it's kind of

1145
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:13,760
as a thought exercise to say okay now i

1146
00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:16,240
got you to a point where you go okay

1147
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,000
you know the woman i interviewed who was

1148
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:22,160
sold under the belgian uh

1149
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:24,800
sexual satanic uh cult there at six

1150
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,000
years old and they have pictures of it

1151
00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:27,680
you know the detroit thing and here's

1152
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:30,079
the woman who was there and you know six

1153
00:40:33,510 --> 00:40:31,680
years old sold by her mother raped a

1154
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,520
thousand times and that people go

1155
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:35,359
oh yeah that's [\h__\h] evil okay now we

1156
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:36,720
can so you know you got to drive the

1157
00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:39,040
stake in the ground but i say all that

1158
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:40,640
because like to me one of the

1159
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:42,319
fundamental questions and this whole

1160
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:45,200
thing is is there a moral imperative is

1161
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:47,280
there good and bad are there good

1162
00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:48,800
thoughts bad thoughts

1163
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:50,880
in any context you must say

1164
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:52,960
where do you come down on that you know

1165
00:40:56,950 --> 00:40:54,319
is there a moral imperative is there

1166
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:56,960
good and bad oh well i you know i would

1167
00:41:00,230 --> 00:40:58,319
say

1168
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:00,240
well fundamentally yes i mean what

1169
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:02,160
sounds what what you just described to

1170
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:04,000
me this poor woman

1171
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:05,040
um

1172
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,640
you know it's horrific what can you say

1173
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:08,400
you can't you can't say anything about

1174
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:09,040
it

1175
00:41:15,829 --> 00:41:14,400
no no no well i mean

1176
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:15,839
again

1177
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:18,560
you you you give this this absolutely

1178
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:20,560
horrific you know

1179
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:23,200
what person's existential experience

1180
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:25,440
whatever i'm going to say is going to

1181
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:27,920
sound absolutely platitude you know

1182
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:30,560
platitudinous and a truism after that

1183
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:32,079
but at the same time we're talking about

1184
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:35,680
this thing evil which okay one has to

1185
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:37,280
say what do you mean do you mean like

1186
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:39,359
there's the prince of evil somehow

1187
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:42,160
a satanic a dark principle that actually

1188
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:45,359
is actively evil or is evil the absence

1189
00:41:49,829 --> 00:41:47,280
of good just like darkness is the

1190
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:49,839
absence of light what do you think

1191
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:52,240
we we we we don't have a we don't have a

1192
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,640
dark flashlight like we're you know some

1193
00:41:58,950 --> 00:41:56,400
some super villain might have a thing

1194
00:42:01,829 --> 00:41:58,960
where he can shoot a beam of darkness at

1195
00:42:03,430 --> 00:42:01,839
you we can't do that we can dispel

1196
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:03,440
darkness with light

1197
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:05,280
so i mean this this is the chris this is

1198
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,640
the you know this argument you don't

1199
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,720
have this argument you know we need to

1200
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:11,040
answer to joke and all that you know uh

1201
00:42:13,910 --> 00:42:12,240
you know

1202
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:13,920
my my latin isn't good enough but it's

1203
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:16,079
like you know the privation of the good

1204
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:18,160
provertio bony you know that's it's the

1205
00:42:21,670 --> 00:42:20,000
absence of good

1206
00:42:23,670 --> 00:42:21,680
is there an act of evil force in the

1207
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:23,680
world this is the manikin kind of thing

1208
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,880
i don't know but when you see some

1209
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:26,640
things i mean you know

1210
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,800
colin wilson as i said whose work

1211
00:42:32,230 --> 00:42:30,480
he wrote about evil he wrote about

1212
00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:32,240
serial killers he wrote he was writing

1213
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,440
about he's writing existential studies

1214
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,760
of killers like jack the ripper and the

1215
00:42:41,030 --> 00:42:39,599
peter curtain who's like people don't

1216
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:41,040
most people don't know about him he's a

1217
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,160
dusseldorf murderer the film m that

1218
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:46,160
peter may peter laurie's name the

1219
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,800
fritzling film m is about him but that's

1220
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:50,560
actually a toned down

1221
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:53,359
um uh take on his life because this guy

1222
00:43:03,109 --> 00:42:54,160
was

1223
00:43:05,589 --> 00:43:03,119
to his wife and even arranged for her to

1224
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:05,599
get the reward money

1225
00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:06,400
you know

1226
00:43:13,990 --> 00:43:13,190
people are strange we are weird beings

1227
00:43:15,990 --> 00:43:14,000
and

1228
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:16,000
this evil i mean this is the thing that

1229
00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:18,160
drove dostoevsky nuts

1230
00:43:24,309 --> 00:43:21,280
you know that's why ivan karamazov in

1231
00:43:26,870 --> 00:43:24,319
the brothers karamazov says you know i

1232
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,880
there may be a great cosmic plan

1233
00:43:32,230 --> 00:43:29,440
in which in the end everything works out

1234
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:32,240
fine but i can't accept it because i

1235
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,240
cannot accept what strikes me as the

1236
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,480
pointless suffering of a child and he's

1237
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,920
talking there's some you know horrific

1238
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,440
condition like like the woman you're

1239
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:42,000
telling me about what cosmic plan

1240
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,920
necessitates that

1241
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,040
okay

1242
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:47,599
uh but then his brother eliot who's the

1243
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,079
religious mystic he has a vision

1244
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:51,839
in which all is good and that's

1245
00:43:56,070 --> 00:43:54,800
dostoevsky's punchline in all of his

1246
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:56,080
books there's somebody who

1247
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,440
[Music]

1248
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:59,280
gets this all is good kind of thing it's

1249
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:00,960
completely irrational

1250
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,960
it it's beyond the rational mind we

1251
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:04,880
cannot explain it you have the

1252
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:07,040
experience and you feel like yes even

1253
00:44:11,670 --> 00:44:09,200
that is good

1254
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:11,680
somehow and it's not this worked out

1255
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:13,839
hegelian plan where everything you know

1256
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:16,800
finally works out no no no it isn't it

1257
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:19,520
isn't the suffering isn't gone

1258
00:44:22,230 --> 00:44:20,480
it's not

1259
00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:22,240
suddenly evil turned into good but

1260
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,319
somehow somehow this overwhelming sense

1261
00:44:30,150 --> 00:44:28,560
of yay saying which paul wilson charted

1262
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:30,160
down his book the outsider people like

1263
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:31,520
nietzsche and blake and some of the

1264
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:32,480
others

1265
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:33,680
that's where

1266
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:36,560
it's this vital energy

1267
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:38,319
life-affirming

1268
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:42,160
sense of yes that just trumps

1269
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,839
sorry to use that word

1270
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:45,440
all of the pain and suffering well that

1271
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,960
word is no longer

1272
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,200
viable right it's a you know but hey no

1273
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:51,119
that that's great gary and i appreciate

1274
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:52,800
it and just so you know i'm not

1275
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:55,359
christian i'm not religious and kind of

1276
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:57,200
part of my investigation this was a guy

1277
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:58,960
who is a

1278
00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:01,119
clinical psychologist you know and i was

1279
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:02,800
doing this doing a bunch of shows and he

1280
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:04,079
wrote me an email says hey i love the

1281
00:45:08,150 --> 00:45:05,520
show but you don't have a [\h__\h] clue

1282
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:08,160
about evil and he went on to describe

1283
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,359
how

1284
00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:11,119
he had come to understand it through

1285
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,839
kind of channeled information and that

1286
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,200
the important thing i think was that

1287
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,440
there's this extended realm in which

1288
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:19,760
it parallels our realm and that there is

1289
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:22,240
malevolence there you know so

1290
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,920
i don't i don't know how to process it

1291
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,760
and i love the way you're

1292
00:45:30,790 --> 00:45:27,599
you're dancing with it

1293
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,800
that seems to me to be really

1294
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,319
wonderfully important and that's why we

1295
00:45:35,750 --> 00:45:34,560
come back to you because you are

1296
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:35,760
you know you're not going to be pinned

1297
00:45:41,670 --> 00:45:39,440
down with a cheap answer so let me then

1298
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,680
add to it i mean i i was going to say

1299
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:43,599
swedenborg written about he said the

1300
00:45:47,349 --> 00:45:45,200
spirits are around us you know all the

1301
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,359
time and there are dark you know evil

1302
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:50,000
spirits you know they're kind of

1303
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,440
the low life

1304
00:45:55,829 --> 00:45:53,920
you know um the the kind of stuff that's

1305
00:45:57,349 --> 00:45:55,839
below so above i mean we don't have to

1306
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:57,359
look very far

1307
00:46:02,230 --> 00:45:59,359
so i mean we've got nothing better to do

1308
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:02,240
than than to create things this is the

1309
00:46:08,710 --> 00:46:04,720
thing there's there is some kind of

1310
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,550
it's it's whatever it is the life force

1311
00:46:14,710 --> 00:46:13,040
gone sour and gone in on itself and it

1312
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,720
becomes this kind of the

1313
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,280
thing that does actually it enjoys the

1314
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:19,839
pain and suffering of others

1315
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:22,330
so i would say yes that to me would be

1316
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:23,680
[Music]

1317
00:46:28,309 --> 00:46:25,359
if you knowingly enjoy the pain and

1318
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:28,319
suffering about this and not in some um

1319
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:31,040
kind of consensual weird sexual kind of

1320
00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:33,200
thing but i i don't mean that i i mean

1321
00:46:36,390 --> 00:46:35,359
some poor child that you got trapped

1322
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,400
somewhere

1323
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:38,560
and that that child's

1324
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,760
cries

1325
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:42,000
of absolute terror you know give you

1326
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,400
give you a free song then that to me

1327
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:47,359
would be you know evil i would say

1328
00:46:51,349 --> 00:46:49,040
let me pull in a couple other of these

1329
00:46:52,630 --> 00:46:51,359
extended consciousness things and see

1330
00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,640
how you're

1331
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:55,040
kind of working them into your your

1332
00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:57,520
thought patterns reincarnation i think

1333
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:59,520
is super interesting and again i like it

1334
00:47:02,790 --> 00:47:01,040
because there's science you know you go

1335
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:02,800
to the guys at university of virginia

1336
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:04,480
and they will blow you away at the

1337
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:06,319
science and you just have to throw up

1338
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:08,000
your hands and like you were saying

1339
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,160
about precognition and dean ray and you

1340
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:13,119
go okay so that that is happening

1341
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:14,079
in this

1342
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,800
you know small r big r reality but then

1343
00:47:20,470 --> 00:47:18,880
so how do you process the reincarnation

1344
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:20,480
thing what do you make of it

1345
00:47:25,109 --> 00:47:22,480
i have to say i've never really

1346
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:25,119
i i've always had a perverse interest in

1347
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:27,599
this notion of eternal recurrence

1348
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:28,640
rather than

1349
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:30,720
just i mean simply say perverse on

1350
00:47:33,670 --> 00:47:32,960
purpose because um

1351
00:47:35,030 --> 00:47:33,680
well

1352
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:35,040
it didn't initially start i mean

1353
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,800
internal recurrence is that

1354
00:47:40,230 --> 00:47:38,400
the we've had this conversation

1355
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:40,240
countless times before and we will have

1356
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:41,680
the same conversation countless

1357
00:47:43,750 --> 00:47:42,640
sometimes

1358
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:43,760
uh again

1359
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,520
and this is a notion that's associated

1360
00:47:50,790 --> 00:47:47,520
with the philosopher nietzsche

1361
00:47:52,710 --> 00:47:50,800
uh the russian ddu spensky who was most

1362
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:52,720
known as a student of geoff but he's a

1363
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:54,880
brilliant philosopher in his own right

1364
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:56,240
he talked about it but in a different

1365
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:57,200
way

1366
00:48:00,150 --> 00:47:58,160
but

1367
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:00,160
i was i got interested in it because i i

1368
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:01,760
read nietzsche when i was you know in my

1369
00:48:05,190 --> 00:48:04,319
teens and all that but um

1370
00:48:08,950 --> 00:48:05,200
also

1371
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:08,960
in the late 80s early 90s i worked at um

1372
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:11,359
the preeminent metaphysical bookshop

1373
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:12,800
west of the rockies this place called

1374
00:48:15,990 --> 00:48:14,240
the bodhi tree

1375
00:48:17,589 --> 00:48:16,000
um it's not there anymore but it was

1376
00:48:19,109 --> 00:48:17,599
very famous it was made famous by

1377
00:48:21,109 --> 00:48:19,119
shirley maclaine

1378
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:21,119
in the 80s with that

1379
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:22,800
whatever it was out on the limb or

1380
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:24,800
something great got her a bad experience

1381
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:26,720
was she was you know experiencing out of

1382
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:27,680
the body

1383
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,880
stuff and

1384
00:48:32,309 --> 00:48:30,640
channeling and a variety of things like

1385
00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:32,319
that and i started working there

1386
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:33,599
actually around the same time that it

1387
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,280
was worth that this thing harmonic

1388
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,800
convergence

1389
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:38,559
any case i'm getting off point but the

1390
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,280
reason i i became kind of i say

1391
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:43,359
perversely kind of interested in eternal

1392
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,119
recurrence because everybody there i was

1393
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:46,960
talking about

1394
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:49,040
their past life and i said nope nope

1395
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:51,359
this just said no you were just you

1396
00:48:54,870 --> 00:48:53,040
sorry

1397
00:48:56,230 --> 00:48:54,880
that was more you know

1398
00:48:58,150 --> 00:48:56,240
you know giving them a hard time about

1399
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,160
it but i don't know i mean i i was very

1400
00:49:01,589 --> 00:48:59,920
i mean when i read a great deal of

1401
00:49:02,670 --> 00:49:01,599
rudolf steiner

1402
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:02,680
you know he

1403
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:06,319
reincarnation is a very very uh central

1404
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:10,800
um item in in in his system and um

1405
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:12,079
you know

1406
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:13,920
i don't know i mean how should i say i i

1407
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:17,599
i know it's um ian sanderson and i mean

1408
00:49:20,790 --> 00:49:19,280
those these are the early kind of people

1409
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:20,800
working on it and i know today there's

1410
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:22,720
more so there's enough kind of evidence

1411
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:23,760
in some way

1412
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,480
that points to it so i don't know i mean

1413
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:28,160
i i guess there's two different well

1414
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:29,520
there's more than two but there's one

1415
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:31,119
there's the kind of scientific where

1416
00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:32,880
wherever it might be the young boy

1417
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:34,960
suddenly has memories of something and

1418
00:49:37,990 --> 00:49:36,240
it's it's

1419
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:38,000
improving all that and then there's the

1420
00:49:41,270 --> 00:49:39,359
sort of

1421
00:49:43,349 --> 00:49:41,280
philosophical let's say you know or the

1422
00:49:44,390 --> 00:49:43,359
metaphysical kind of teaching about it

1423
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:44,400
you know

1424
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:50,880
this world here and now

1425
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,680
that i i i don't think about where i was

1426
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:55,040
before and i

1427
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:56,800
i dread having to worry about where i'm

1428
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:59,280
going next

1429
00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:00,800
you know please there's enough there's

1430
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:02,000
enough for me to deal with i'm very

1431
00:50:06,230 --> 00:50:03,680
existential in that way

1432
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:06,240
you know i i think that's a a lot deeper

1433
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,760
than you're kind of letting on and i

1434
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:09,359
appreciate the justician off with a

1435
00:50:14,630 --> 00:50:11,520
laugh i'm glad you reminded us of

1436
00:50:16,470 --> 00:50:14,640
shirley mclean in that whole uh era for

1437
00:50:20,470 --> 00:50:16,480
people who weren't there or don't

1438
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,480
haven't read about it that was the the

1439
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:22,319
that was the zeitgeist right who were

1440
00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:25,680
you i was isis i was everyone had these

1441
00:50:30,549 --> 00:50:28,400
you know it it really got to be so

1442
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:30,559
it was comical you know that's life

1443
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:32,160
aggression that was happening all the

1444
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:33,599
time i mean yeah i mean it was a

1445
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,280
fantastic place to be in fact i'm

1446
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,520
thinking i i have to write my memories

1447
00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:39,200
of it before you know

1448
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,200
i don't remember him anymore but it was

1449
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,720
a fantastic time

1450
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:44,240
but the other thing that you mentioned i

1451
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:46,000
think is particularly interesting and

1452
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:47,920
it's often you know because the way you

1453
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:50,319
broke it down i think is

1454
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,680
quite quite

1455
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:53,599
spot on in that you know the scientific

1456
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:54,400
data

1457
00:50:58,549 --> 00:50:56,640
like you go look at

1458
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,559
jim tucker at university of virginia and

1459
00:51:02,870 --> 00:51:00,559
ian stevenson and all that stuff and you

1460
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:02,880
just gotta go okay yeah okay yeah you

1461
00:51:07,109 --> 00:51:04,960
got me you know you turned my

1462
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,119
arm up twisted my arm and i gotta admit

1463
00:51:11,750 --> 00:51:09,599
it but the other thing is like to your

1464
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:11,760
point you go talk to

1465
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:13,920
uh some of the zen people and some of

1466
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:15,680
the other buddhist people and they go no

1467
00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:17,680
you've missed you've missed the point

1468
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:20,319
yeah the point is there is only now

1469
00:51:23,829 --> 00:51:21,280
right

1470
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,839
so any thought that you might have of

1471
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,599
past life future life

1472
00:51:28,870 --> 00:51:27,599
you you've already missed the point so

1473
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:28,880
come back to

1474
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:30,800
you know and even if you're not like

1475
00:51:35,430 --> 00:51:33,680
super zen about it you you do see

1476
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:35,440
essentially what you're saying which is

1477
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:38,000
my only job is to be completely engaged

1478
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,040
in

1479
00:51:43,349 --> 00:51:41,520
i couldn't be i mean yeah but i'm

1480
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:43,359
talking about me personally so it's not

1481
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:45,520
i'm not i'm i'm not prescribing for

1482
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,440
others i mean i know i mean other people

1483
00:51:50,870 --> 00:51:49,040
i mean i write about this stuff but i

1484
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:50,880
think in order to write about it you

1485
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:52,800
have to be a bit sort of

1486
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:54,720
detached from it you know if you if

1487
00:51:57,430 --> 00:51:56,400
you're

1488
00:51:59,349 --> 00:51:57,440
too much

1489
00:52:01,030 --> 00:51:59,359
how should i say it my left brain is

1490
00:52:02,870 --> 00:52:01,040
interested in what my right brain is

1491
00:52:05,030 --> 00:52:02,880
doing

1492
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,040
it's trying to like talk about it but no

1493
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,720
i mean i i'm i mean no you'd be

1494
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:08,559
interesting you say zen because when i

1495
00:52:12,790 --> 00:52:10,319
was a teenager this is one of the first

1496
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:12,800
things i got interested in back in the

1497
00:52:16,870 --> 00:52:15,119
very early 70s it was like growing up in

1498
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:16,880
new jersey we got the tail end of you

1499
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,000
know the 60s and i was doing my own

1500
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:22,319
thing whenever i was 71 or something

1501
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:25,680
like that but um yeah reading

1502
00:52:29,190 --> 00:52:28,400
suzuki and obviously the dharma bums you

1503
00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:29,200
know

1504
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:32,000
kerouac's novel with alan watts and

1505
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,319
just strangely enough recently went back

1506
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,480
and came across the book of suzuki's at

1507
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:38,319
a charity shopping around the back and

1508
00:52:41,589 --> 00:52:40,000
you know i mean you know

1509
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:41,599
having

1510
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,119
done you know all this other stuff a lot

1511
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:47,359
of it said oh i understand in a way what

1512
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:48,400
he's talking at least what they talk

1513
00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:50,160
about the zen experience which any zen

1514
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:51,839
person would say well you've lost it

1515
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,200
already as soon as you start talking

1516
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:55,680
about it but it is this kind of right

1517
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:58,079
brain kind of way of seeing being in the

1518
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:01,040
now in the present and not being

1519
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:02,640
um

1520
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:06,000
hurried and harangued by your obsessive

1521
00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:07,920
left brain ego who always wants to do

1522
00:53:12,309 --> 00:53:09,680
things and i'm sadly one of these people

1523
00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:12,319
who is like that you know i i find it

1524
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:14,079
really difficult to sit and do nothing i

1525
00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:17,040
mean i'm constantly and um but i'm

1526
00:53:21,510 --> 00:53:19,040
i have of late been consciously trying

1527
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,520
to do that more and i've even

1528
00:53:25,910 --> 00:53:24,000
started listening to shakuhachi you know

1529
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:25,920
bamboo flute music on youtube which i

1530
00:53:28,549 --> 00:53:27,040
have to say

1531
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:28,559
you know this is one of the wonderful

1532
00:53:32,309 --> 00:53:30,240
things about the online world that i

1533
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:32,319
have access to that now

1534
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,520
that's awesome

1535
00:53:38,470 --> 00:53:35,920
what's next what do you want to do

1536
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:38,480
for the next act

1537
00:53:40,829 --> 00:53:39,680
um

1538
00:53:43,270 --> 00:53:40,839
well

1539
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,280
i many ways i want to take the long

1540
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:45,119
deferred and much needed rest i've been

1541
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:47,040
saying for the last 20 something years i

1542
00:53:51,270 --> 00:53:47,920
need

1543
00:53:54,829 --> 00:53:51,280
um but um i have an idea

1544
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,309
i've i mentioned that i'm um you know

1545
00:54:01,670 --> 00:54:00,240
talked about

1546
00:54:03,910 --> 00:54:01,680
writing down these memories of working

1547
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:03,920
at the boating train things like that um

1548
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:05,440
some something along those lines i mean

1549
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:07,200
i'm actually at the moment i'm working

1550
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,079
on

1551
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:10,480
a book about um a fellow named morris

1552
00:54:14,069 --> 00:54:11,520
nichol

1553
00:54:15,670 --> 00:54:14,079
who started out as a jungian he was the

1554
00:54:18,069 --> 00:54:15,680
first um

1555
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:18,079
jung's representatives in britain in

1556
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:19,119
england

1557
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,520
but then he changed his allegiance to

1558
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,000
gurjev and uspensky

1559
00:54:28,470 --> 00:54:26,559
early 1920s and he spent

1560
00:54:30,549 --> 00:54:28,480
a year at guergiev's

1561
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:30,559
prairie his institute for harmonious

1562
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:32,240
development of man and fountain blue for

1563
00:54:36,630 --> 00:54:33,839
your listeners who don't know who grojef

1564
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,640
has used his enigmatic um

1565
00:54:42,150 --> 00:54:39,280
greco sort of turkish

1566
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:42,160
esoteric teacher in their first half of

1567
00:54:45,910 --> 00:54:44,720
the 20th century um

1568
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:45,920
and um

1569
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:48,079
he uh gathered around himself quite a

1570
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:49,040
few

1571
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:51,040
um

1572
00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:53,119
of intellectual

1573
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:57,040
um and cultural uh people um the uh well

1574
00:55:00,870 --> 00:54:58,960
the russian philosopher peter uspensky

1575
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:00,880
who i mentioned earlier the writer

1576
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:02,960
catherine mansfield

1577
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:04,400
um

1578
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:11,680
student of his for a while at this

1579
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:13,520
strange place that he had in

1580
00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:15,280
fontainebleau outside of paris in the

1581
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,480
20s

1582
00:55:21,109 --> 00:55:18,880
where um there was a

1583
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:21,119
certainly a uh a strange place for most

1584
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:22,880
of these people who were sort of you

1585
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:23,520
know

1586
00:55:29,829 --> 00:55:27,920
well-off well-heeled

1587
00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:29,839
intellectuals and and

1588
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:32,880
writers and cultural people or in in

1589
00:55:36,069 --> 00:55:34,640
england at the time who went there and

1590
00:55:38,950 --> 00:55:36,079
they were mostly

1591
00:55:42,470 --> 00:55:40,549
given all this very hard physical work

1592
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:42,480
to do along with all these kind of

1593
00:55:46,870 --> 00:55:44,240
psychological exercises and things of

1594
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:46,880
that sort so any case so um he is he

1595
00:55:51,109 --> 00:55:48,799
sort of got lost in the shuffle

1596
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:51,119
of different people that um came out of

1597
00:55:55,589 --> 00:55:54,160
this time and um i've been approached by

1598
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:55,599
someone to do book about him and having

1599
00:56:00,150 --> 00:55:57,440
written about uspensky

1600
00:56:01,270 --> 00:56:00,160
and also jung and nichol was also later

1601
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,280
in his life

1602
00:56:04,870 --> 00:56:03,520
by the reader of swedenborg who i

1603
00:56:06,069 --> 00:56:04,880
mentioned briefly

1604
00:56:07,109 --> 00:56:06,079
and i've written a book about him as

1605
00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:07,119
well so

1606
00:56:11,670 --> 00:56:09,040
uh it seems as i you know might be the

1607
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,680
person to to do it

1608
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:13,760
that's fantastic you know i kind of get

1609
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:15,680
the feeling when

1610
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:17,440
i hear about the origins of these books

1611
00:56:22,150 --> 00:56:20,799
you're talking about your vacation val

1612
00:56:23,270 --> 00:56:22,160
forget about it

1613
00:56:24,390 --> 00:56:23,280
they're going to keep

1614
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:24,400
yeah

1615
00:56:27,910 --> 00:56:26,000
it's the old line from the godfather

1616
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:27,920
they keep pulling me back you know i

1617
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:28,799
mean

1618
00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:29,599
well

1619
00:56:33,190 --> 00:56:31,359
you know necessity is the mother of

1620
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:33,200
production that's my

1621
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:35,920
that's my pat my paraphrase on that so

1622
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:37,440
that's how it is so

1623
00:56:42,789 --> 00:56:39,680
i'm still waiting for the big one to

1624
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:42,799
happen but uh no i mean um i i enjoy

1625
00:56:46,789 --> 00:56:46,000
doing and i enjoy giving talks and um

1626
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:46,799
i

1627
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:55,359
my book lost knowledge of the

1628
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:58,000
imagination and so that's gratifying too

1629
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,119
so

1630
00:57:03,829 --> 00:57:01,760
again our guest has been very excellent

1631
00:57:06,789 --> 00:57:03,839
gary lachman it's been terrific terrific

1632
00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:06,799
talking to him and uh the website's uh

1633
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:09,520
very nicely done number one but also it

1634
00:57:12,470 --> 00:57:11,280
has a lot of stuff there and it's it's

1635
00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:12,480
nicely

1636
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:14,799
laid out you know which shouldn't be a

1637
00:57:19,270 --> 00:57:17,839
big deal but it it is nowadays you know

1638
00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:19,280
i'm glad you said because i'm actually

1639
00:57:23,349 --> 00:57:21,760
thinking i i i need to be vamping so i'm

1640
00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:23,359
glad you say that well

1641
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:25,040
you know anyone that's just kind of a

1642
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:26,880
personal thing but what i liked is you

1643
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:28,720
know like you go over here and it's what

1644
00:57:32,230 --> 00:57:30,319
you want interviews articles talks and

1645
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:32,240
other things and it's all super

1646
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,240
accessible and there's you know just a

1647
00:57:39,349 --> 00:57:36,559
line or two about what you're gonna find

1648
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:39,359
there and then the links work

1649
00:57:41,829 --> 00:57:40,480
and then

1650
00:57:43,829 --> 00:57:41,839
you know it's

1651
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:43,839
it's just kind of nice and some of the

1652
00:57:50,069 --> 00:57:46,240
photography is very nice

1653
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:52,309
well it's been a great reconnecting with

1654
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,640
you and i really appreciate it so gary

1655
00:57:59,109 --> 00:57:56,319
thanks again pleasure well thank you

1656
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:59,119
very much and um yeah good luck uh with

1657
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:00,960
the next one thanks again to gary

1658
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:03,520
lachman for joining me today on skeptico

1659
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:05,760
question it's the obvious one malicious

1660
00:58:10,549 --> 00:58:09,040
intent question mark

1661
00:58:13,190 --> 00:58:10,559
are they trying to break down the system

1662
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:13,200
or is the system just breaking down

1663
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:14,799
let me know your thoughts skeptical

1664
00:58:18,789 --> 00:58:16,720
forum come on over join me skeptical

1665
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,799
forum i if you are interested in getting

1666
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,720
an answer from me or getting a response

1667
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,200
from me or dialoguing with me i

1668
00:58:26,789 --> 00:58:24,960
you just go to the skeptical forum and i

1669
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:26,799
respond to everything there

1670
00:58:30,970 --> 00:58:29,200
anyways until next time take care bye

1671
00:58:44,570 --> 00:58:30,980
for now